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North Texas Skeptics


NTS LogoRosemary Hunter


E-mail Exchange With Rosemary Hunter

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Rosemary Hunter wrote us:

Fri, 22 Jun 2007 06:42:48 -0700 (PDT)
Good Morning!
To: skeptic75287@yahoo.com

I am interested in scheduling a preliminary testing date.

God speaks to me through my mind. He is the only one that possess supernatural powers. He has countless supernatural abilities that can be performed on you or any person of your choice. He can intentionally release your bladder, alter your mood, and alter your feelings just to name a few things He can do.

Please reply to this e-mail with more information regarding your process to win this challenge. I live in Cleveland Ohio.

Sincerely,

Rosemary Hunter

Sometimes the Lord sends Angels to walk upon this earth. The forms they take are varied, from the moment of their birth. He sent them here to teach us, in so many different ways, the reason why we're living, and the purpose of our days.

We may not always know them as they pass along the way, but be sure there is a reason for the souls we meet each day. So be sure your always willing, and be ready with a hand, to help someone who needs it or just listen when you can.

For when we help another, and pass on hope and love our souls are one step closer to our Father up above.

by Donna Spangenberg

God is getting ready to do something that will blow your mind........

I was impressed

This was a challenge without equal. Imagine, taking on the creator of the Universe.

I responded:

Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

Thank you for contacting the North Texas Skeptics.

I assume you refer to the NTS Paranormal Challenge. If so, you have contacted the correct person. I am John Blanton, and I am one of the underwriters of the award. I will also assist you in preparing a challenge for the award.

(As a side note: It is wise to take care in how you address e-mail to strangers. For example, I get lots of spam with phrases like "Hi," and "Good Morning" in the subject line. Often these e-mails go straight to my e-mail trash bin. This morning I had lots of time on my hands (day off from work), so I opened your e-mail.)

We need for you to come up with a testable claim. For example, you wrote that God speaks to you through your mind. This not very testable. We would ask you to prove God speaks to you through your mind, and you could answer that God tells you of the future. You could make specific predictions of the future as proof, but that would not prove that God speaks to you through your mind. We would have no way of knowing that it was God who assisted you in predicted the future.

I advise you to refer to the following page:

http://www.ntskeptics.org/challenge/challenge.htm

This source may not tell you everything you need to know to prepare a statement of your claim and a proposal for testing your claim. However, it will provide you information to help prevent wasting your time on wrong approaches.

Additionally, let me give you some advice to help you get started:

1. Be very specific. Don't leave it up to me to guess what you mean and what you intend to demonstrate.

2. Describe what outcomes will disprove your claim. For example, state that if you your prediction of the future fails to come true (Hillary Clinton does not win the presidential election in November 2008) then you will have failed to prove your claim.

3. Restate your claim to ensure it is testable. For example, you state that God speaks to your. You need to tell us which god speaks to you and how you plan to prove it is the god you claim and not some other god. Better still, leave off the claim of any god and just claim that you can make accurate predictions.

4. If you claim you can make predictions of the future (for example), then you need to make a statement of the reliability of your predictions. Again for example, you can state that your predictions are 100% accurate. Then any failed prediction will disprove your claim. If you claim 80% reliability then we will need to run tests to determine whether your predictions are correct 80% (or more) of the time, on average over a long series of tests.

We are in Dallas (actually I am currently sitting in Salt Lake City, Utah). You are in Cleveland, Ohio. We do not need to meet in order to test your claim, so we can get started immediately. Please read the instructions on the Web page (link above) and reply to me with a detailed statement of your claim and how you propose to demonstrate your claim. Else, if you have questions, then contact me again by e-mail, and I will attempt to assist you.

As you can see, all of this is not simple. So far, nobody has gotten past this preliminary stage. All who have engaged us in the last 14 years have failed to advance to the point of signing an agreement to test for the award. Sometimes this has been our fault. We have been unable to meet with the claimant (I am out of town), and sometimes we have conceded we could not obtain the required information to perform the test (could not get accurate birth time information for an astrological reading). If we can't test, we can't proceed, and that' all we can offer. Read more about other challenges by following the links on the Challenge page.

Best regards,

John Blanton
Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary Hunter responded

Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:05:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

Thank you for your reply.

I am sorry that my claim was misinterpreted. My claim is not that God speaks to me. My claim is that I can do many things to your body (which I am not sure is even testable).

As stated, (with my mind) I can release your bladder even after you have released it yourself. I can alter your mood....I can make you cry profusely, make you sad, etc.

I can release your bladder.....is that testable?

If not, please advice me on what is it that I must do the human body that is testable?....besides healing the body.

I am not willing to make any predictions about the future...only performing supernatural abilities to the human body.

I responded

Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:39:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

OK, give me more specifics. Please propose a test.

Best regards,

John Blanton Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary responded

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:49:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

Thank you for your reply.

My supernatural claim is as simple as it gets. I am not sure if you are saying that releasing your bladder is a testable claim and that is the supernatural ability that will win this prize.

Releasing your bladder is extremely simple. I would prefer to travel to your location or any location in the United States where you will have whomever you choose to observe this event. You and perhaps one other individual (if you choose) will release your bladder on your own. Immediately after that happens, using my mind I will release your bladder again. Its just that simple.

There are no equipment, prototypes, or any devices to be used. There is no need for any such items. This event will include myself and whomever you choose to participate....that will be it. Nothing more, nothing less. Its simple.

This process will take approximately 15-20 minutes.

I can also miraculously take over your body and make you cry and sob profusely (using my mind)....or change your feeling to whatever state you choose. It would be performed in the same scenario as above. In person, wherever you choose, and will you and your choice of participants.

I am extremely open to any preferences you may have, so that I can win this challenge. In any claim that is performed, there are no certain types of clothing that must be worn, gender, race, or color is not an issue. There are NO specific thing that must exist. Just you and me in vicinity of one another....nothing more, nothing less.

Because each challenger would probably have different needs based on their claim, I am open to your suggestions so that all of your requirements to win this challenge will be met.

Thank you.

Rosemary

I responded

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:15:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

OK. Before we enter into any formal agreement to test for the prize, I want to see a demonstration. I am in Salt Lake City. When can you come out here and show me a dedmonstration?

All correspondence regarding the NTS Paranormal Challenge will be published on our Web site and may be published in our newsletter.

Best regards,

John Blanton
Skeptical Web Master.

Rosemary got back to me with a very immediate challenge

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

I have checked the availability for flights and for a train, however, they are a bit expensive to come next week.

Nevertheless, I will release your bladder from here in Cleveland. If you are willing to allow me to do this later today, 06/24/2007, please reply to this e-mail and let me know when you are available EST.

Thank you.

This was getting serious. I determined to be brave.

Sun, 24 Jun 2007 07:08:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

Yes, air travel to Salt Lake City by air is expensive, and there does not seem to be much in the way of train travel. If you can provide a demonstration by distance that will save you a lot of money.

I am ready. Begin.

Best regards,

John Blanton
Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary did not hesitate to strike with full force.

Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:43:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

Okay. Your bladder will be released in a few minutes. You will not be able to move from the position you are in right now.

I held my breath. I checked my drawers. Whew!

Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:54:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

I guess it didn't work, and your demonstration was unsuccessful. You will need a successful demonstration before we will consider entering into a formal test with you.

Thank you very much for your interest in the North Texas Paranormal Challenge.

Best regards,

John Blanton
Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary decided on a final showdown.

Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

When are you available for me to show you a demonstation in Salt Lake City? When the demonstration is successfull, what would be the next process? Would it take days or weeks for a formal demonstration or could all of this be done in one day? Its just that I would rather not have to make several trips, that is all.

Thank you.

I set up a preliminary demonstration by Rosemary

Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

I will be here in Salt Lake City through August. You should be considering only weekends for a demonstration.

Depending on the test protocol, I could do it here, or one of the underwriters in Dallas could do the test. What will delay any formal test is your ability to propose a formal test protocol. You may want to consider getting through that before making any trips.

Correspondence related to the NTS Paranormal Challenge will be published on our Web site and (possibly) in our newsletter.

Best regards,

John Blanton
Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary submitted a decent proposal.

Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

Weekends would be just fine. However, I would like for you to provide me that would be convenient for you, that I could choose from, and it would give me time to schedule a flight.

In order to not hurt anyone emotionally and mentally the supernatural ability that I would like to do is to put you or any person of your choice to sleep. Will putting you to sleep (using my mind) is something that will be sufficient? I am very confident in the supernatural abilities that can be performed on any human being. However, I do want to do this in person.

Would this be okay with you? It would only take just a few minutes. I have looked at flights to Hollywood (where there is another challenge) which have about a two hour layover in Salt Lake City. I was more interested in using this layover time to give you a demonstration because it would only take a few minutes.

The supernatural ability that I demonstrate on you WILL be exactly same for the formal test.

Patiently awaiting your reply.

Thank you.

My counter proposal:

Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:09:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

Well, putting me to sleep would make my observing the demonstration problematic. In short, I have to stay awake in order to observe the demonstration.

And, besides, I am not willing to allow somebody besides my physician to put me to sleep.

Please come up with another plan.

The weekend of 7 and 8 July will be fine with me as well as the weekend of 14 and 15 July. You will need more than a two-hour layover in Salt Lake City, because debarking and embarking will take up a lot of that time, and you will need to drive into the city from the airport and back. You should allow at least four hours in Salt Lake City for any kind of reasonable demonstration.

Also, you need to be more specific about your proposed test protocol.

Best regards,

John Blanton
Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary made plans for the demo.

Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:12:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

Thank you for the flight/demonstration advice. I do understand and that is not a problem.

Please advice me on what demonstration you would like for me to perform: releasing your bladder, having you to cry profusely, or read your mind?

Some advice to Rosemary

Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:15:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

This is your demonstration. You need to come up with a plan. If we work out the plan it will likely not be satisfactory for you.

Best regards,

John Blanton
Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary wants me to choose.

Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:20:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

It WILL be satisfactory me. Whatever you want (within reason) is fine. I would rather your choose what demonstration that would be satisfactory to you and your organization.

If you do not want to choose, then I will choose to release your bladder.

In all honesty, I would rather have you work out the plan. Also, you said to be more specific in the test protocol. What questions would you like to answer for you?

Thank you.

Time for me to get serious

Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:32:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

I'm going to help you out here.

Obviously you will be able to cause me to release my bladder by hitting me with a baseball bat. However, you never mentioned any such critical provision in your test proposal. Your test proposal needs to have language to cover all pertinent aspects of the test. Here is what I am going to insist on:

1. No contact with me is allowed (maintain a space of at least one foot, for example).

2. No extraordinary physical effects. E.g., no flashing lights, no loud noises, no threats of physical harm, etc. In short, explain exactly what you intend to do that makes it clear no extraordinary physical intervention is involved.

3. You need to state a time period. For example, I will say "start," and there must be results within 30 seconds, or the test is a failure.

4. Any special circumstances that need to apply. For example, dark room, certain people present, certain people absent, time of day.

5. What constitutes a failure. My say so? The opinion of a disinterested third party?

This takes some doing. You need to go through the process. Read the NTS Skeptical Challenge Web page again.

Best regards,

John Blanton
Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary began to firm up plans.

Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:36:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

Thank for the information. I would like to schedule a demonstration for 07/15/2007, if this is sufficient for you I will check flights for a specific time.

I have attached the information that is being requested.

If other details are needed, I will be more than happy to reply with that information.

Sincerely,

Rosemary Hunter

I laid out the final ground rules.

Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

Thanks again for your interest in the NTS Paranormal Challenge.

I have read the attached document, and I agree your demonstration proposal is reasonable. I am willing to participate in your demonstration on 15 July, which is a Sunday.

Please note in advance that I cannot provide all the conditions you require. We will have to meet in a public place, so I cannot provide absolute silence. Also, since there are no other NTS members or Challenge underwriters here in Utah with me, there will be nobody but the two of us to witness the demonstration. This may not be agreeable with you. In that case we will have to postpone the demonstration until I am back in Dallas, and other NTS member can participate.

Otherwise, I am willing to witness your demonstration in Salt Lake City. I am thinking we could meet at a McDonald's restaurant or some place like that. The reverse mind reading would be a good test, except you will have to do the reading and tell me what I have written.

Following the demonstration I will make the determination whether to proceed with a formal test. Since I need to work out arrangements with the other underwriters, it will not be possible to perform the test on the same day as the demonstration. In fact, the underwriters may insist the test be performed in Dallas so they can participate.

I urge you to carefully consider all the above before you invest the time and expense of coming to Salt Lake City for a demonstration. My own experience indicates strongly your demonstration will not succeed, and your expense and efforts will be wasted.

All correspondence related to the NTS Paranormal Challenge will be published on our Web site and may be published in our newsletter.

Best regards,

John Blanton

Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary agreed to the conditions and made plans to come to Salt Lake City

Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:40:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

A public place will be fine with me. Are you saying the mind reading demonstration is what you would like to be performe? If so, that is also fine with me.

Hopefully, I will schedule my flight in the next couple of days. This is due to me attempting to schedule another demonstration in Hollywood, CA the next day. I will advice you, as soon as possible, on the specific time my flight arrives in Salt Lake City, UT.

Thank you.

Rosemary Hunter

I set up the demo with Rosemary Hunter.

Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:26:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

I am set to go for next Sunday (15 July). I will meet you at the McDonald's restaurant on Redwood Road, near where I am staying for the next few days. You can present your demonstration there before continuing your trip. Here's the address:

5571 South Redwood Road

This address may not actually be in Salt Lake City, since there is a patchwork of suburbs in this area.

Please let me know what time you will meet me, and I will be there. Please phone me a few minutes in advance so I can be sure to not be late and also so I can direct you to the location if you need assistance. My phone number is 214-335-9248.

Also, you will need to be able to execute a legal contract. This means if you cannot legally sign a contract, then you cannot challenge for the prize. I apologize for not bringing this up before, but it is a detail that must not be neglected. Particularly, you must be of majority age. I think this is 21, but I am only guessing. Please advise me immediately if you will not be able to execute a legal document.

Best regards,

John Blanton

Rosemary assured me she was ready to roll.

Mon, 9 Jul 2007 02:07:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

Before I confirm 07/15/2007 as the date of the demonstration, I would like to know if possible, would you write a hand written letter describing the demonstration and its outcome. This would be submitted to the James Randi Educational Foundation?

Also, I am still waiting to receive confirmation on a skeptics organization in Hollywood for the next day. This will also me to book my flight appropriately.

Lastly, I would be able to execute a legal contract.

The dialog continued.

Mon, 9 Jul 2007 06:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

Upon completion of your demonstration I will contact James Randi and let him know of the outcome of the demonstration. I will send you a copy, as well.

Best regards,

John Blanton

Rosemary provided an update.

Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:13:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

Thank you.

However, I just received confirmation that I would need to be in Hollywood on Tuesday, 07/17/2007. Is it possible to have this scheduled for Monday 07/16/2007?

I provided some additional details.

Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

I will only be able to meet you after 6 p.m. on Monday. I hope this is not inconvenient to you.

Best regards,

John Blanton

Rosemary asked for confirmation of the prize.

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

That would be great. Thank you.

I was just curious as to how long this process would take to win the prize.

After a successful demonstration on 07/16/2007, would I be able to schedule the final demonstration within a week or two (in Dallas)? Also, after successfully completing the final demonstration, would the prize be immediately given or does it take weeks or months to receive?

Thank you.

I reconfirmed the prize.

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:22:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "rosemary hunter"

Rosemary,

To answer your questions:

Once we agree to a formal test with you, I think the test can be completed within 30 minutes.

You will need to work out the details in advance with us, but it will likely go something like this:

Since you claim to be able to guess all ten words we write secretly on a piece of paper, you will have to guess all ten words correctly. Since you claim 100% success we will ask you to repeat the test at least twice to eliminate any chance (random) success. In these two trials if you miss even a single word, you will fail the test, and you will not get the prize. We will be the ones who determine whether you miss any words.

Since you did not say you need to see the paper or touch the paper with the words, you will not be shown the paper until after you have made your ten guesses.

We will require that you write your guesses on another piece of paper. Your responses have to be written clearly (block printed, for example) so there is no ambiguity. Our person who wrote the words on the paper will be present, but you will not be allowed to talk to this person. Once you have submitted your responses in writing we will evaluate them by comparing them with the words we have written on our piece of paper.

If you are correct over all trials, a check will be given to you immediately.

We will publish all results of this test.

At this point, please take a reality check. Your chances of success are vanishingly small. You are proposing to read what is on a person's mind without communicating with that person. Before you go to all this trouble and expense, you should attempt this at home. Have somebody write ten words on a paper and then attempt to guess the ten words. If you fail even one word, then your claim is invalid.

Best regards,

John Blanton
Skeptical Web Master

Rosemary Hunter agreed with the proposed demonstration.

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:39:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: "rosemary hunter"
Subject: Re: The North Texas Skeptics Paranormal Challenge
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic75287@yahoo.com>

All of the details are fine with me. However, I would request that when we meet next week that you write down your words once you are in my presence. We can sit at different tables to make sure I am not in view of your paper (even having my back to you) , if that is okay with you. And I will write down my words on a piece of paper.

Finally

After all the details were ironed out, Rosemary Hunter took a flight to Salt Lake City, and we met at a McDonald's restaurant. The story was published in the August 2007 issue of The North Texas Skeptic. Here is a link:

http://www.ntskeptics.org/2007/2007august/august2007.htm#challenge

In short, Rosemary was unable to demonstrate any of her claimed ability to read my mind. She immediately conceded defeat.

We have had no further correspondence from Rosemary Hunter.


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